Tabla de contenidos para May 2018 en Octane

THERE IS A noticeable seasonal change to this issue of Octane. Of course, the classic car world no longer hibernates for winter as it once did – traditionally there was a shutdown between the NEC show and Rétromobile, except for those hardy rallyists who are only tempted out when the conditions are most treacherous – but lighter mornings and evenings bring a sense of springtime rebirth. Which is kind of appropriate, given some of the stories featured this month. Not only do we delve into a long-thought-destroyed Maserati Quattroporte prototype in all its barnfind glory, but we also poke around in the eerie remnants of Bertone before its historic treasure trove of models and drawings goes to new homes. There is also the rebirth of the Lister Knobbly, not only…

Classic recordbreakers The Silverstone Classic has been recognised by the Guinness Book of World Records for hosting the biggest-ever parade of McLaren cars at last year’s festival when 115 cars took to the track. The cars were gathered by the McLaren Owners’ Group to celebrate the 80th anniversary of Kiwi legend Bruce McLaren’s birth. The demonstration run was led by McLaren’s only child Amanda, who was just four years old when her father lost his life testing at Goodwood at the age of 32. Amanda McLaren is a brand ambassador for the manufacturer and race team that still bears her father’s name. This year the Silverstone Classic hopes to break another record on 20-22 July when a special parade honours the 50th anniversary of the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona. See…

THE THREAT OFstorms forced the Amelia Island Concours to change its date at the last minute for the second year in succession – and for RM Sotheby’s to bring forward its auction – yet with no ill effect on this prestigious Florida event. For its 23rd running, rescheduled from the Sunday to the Saturday, the twin Best of Show awards for road and competition cars were won by a 1929 Duesenberg J/SJ Convertible and 1963 Ferrari 250/272P. The Duesenberg belongs to Harry Yeaggy of Cincinnati and has Murphy roadster-style coachwork that was restyled by Bohman & Schwartz. Its fascinating history includes time in the hands of Edward Beale McLean, whose family owned The Washington Post. The Ferrari was from the JSL Motorsports Collection in Redwood City, California. Boasting NART history,…

6-8 April Espiritu de Montjuïc The street circuit at Montjuïc in Barcelona fell into disuse in the ’70s but comes back to life once a year, with single-seaters, GTs, touring and sports cars in action. peterauto.peter.fr 6-8 April MotorClássico A gathering of classics big and small in the Portuguese capital of Lisbon; among the exhibitors there are always several model car specialists. motorclassico.com 7-8 April La Jolla Concours d’Elegance There’s more than one seaside concours in California, and this event at La Jolla boasts a location to rival any in the world – and an equally compelling field of cars and motorcycles. lajollaconcours.com 13-15 April Rallye Père-Fille This Biarritz-based rally for father-daughter crews is a relaxed affair, meaning those who prefer to stare out of the window rather than at…

IF THE AUDI R8 RWS elsewhere in this issue is a demonstration in purity, then Mercedes-AMG’s new CLS is something of its opposite. It’s dubbed a ‘four-door coupé’, which translates to an exquisitely executed, rakish saloon, though perhaps it’s lost some of the drama of the original. Here, in current range-topping CLS 53 4Matic+ mode, it gets some additional AMG signifiers, so there’s a more assertive grille, an abrupt rear spoiler at the bootlid’s trailing edge, and a set of tailpipes hung provocatively under its shapely rear. The badging says 53, this being the first of AMG’s models to get the company’s new engine. It’s a 3.0-litre straight-six with twin turbochargers, one being electric for low-rev immediacy, the other conventionally driven by the exhaust. There’s also an ‘EQ Boost’ starter/generator…

I SMILED WHEN Matthew Hayward commented that the Audi RS2 Avant was popular with robbers looking to make quick getaways (Buying Guide, issue 178), as I am one of the few police officers who managed to intercept one after a raid. One night in 2007 I was patrolling West Norfolk in a marked car when a call came in: a witness had seen an explosion inside a Dereham supermarket and a black Ford Escort estate was making off with a cashpoint in the back. Although Dereham was 30 miles away, I headed to the A47 east of King’s Lynn where there was a slim chance they might appear. Sometime later an oncoming car caught my attention when it delayed dipping its headlights for just too long, often a sign of…

The hot flush of panic has given way to eye-rolling exasperation. As the sun pulses overhead, all that surrounds us are parched peaks, a smattering of boulders, a couple of outbuildings engulfed by foliage and an ancient lorry in the closing stages of decomposition. Oh, and cows. Lots and lots of cows, in fact. The seasoned pro who is herding them gesticulates wildly with one hand, while training her stick with the other. She then nods robustly and offers a gummy smile as her livestock finally, reluctantly, move out of the road – the same sliver of asphalt fabulousness that we had been enjoying minutes earlier. It’s like the parting of the Red Sea, except one of her party is clearly not a happy heifer and refuses to budge. Instead,…

DESPITE ITS legendary status, the Lister ‘Knobbly’ enjoyed only a brief spell as a frontline racer. The prototype swept all before it in 1957, with the brilliant Archie Scott Brown at the wheel. The production variant arrived a year later and was offered with a raft of engine options. Customers had the choice of 3.0- or 3.8-litre twin-cam XK units, or 4.6- and 5.7-litre Chevrolet V8s. Early adopters included Ecurie Ecosse, Pierre Strasse’s Equipe National Belge, and Briggs Cunningham. The latter became the marque’s US concessionaire, with the likes of Carroll Shelby, Tom Carstens and Kjell Qvale also doing much to raise Lister’s profile Stateside. Cunningham fielded two 3.0-litre cars in the 1958 Sebring 12 Hours. The Scott Brown/Walt Hansgen entry had managed a mere three laps when it was…

WHAT COULD BE more British than a car museum based at a traditional old manor house, with rare and even unique cars in outbuildings and chicken sheds? The first introduction to Filching Manor is a gravel car park fronting a 15th Century manor house. Paul Foulkes-Halbard, the previous owner, used to claim that the front door was the UK’s oldest domestic door in continuous use and it leads to a simple interior, packed with books and automobilia. Outside is an old farm building, called The Campbell Hall, housing a jaw-dropping collection, mainly celebrating Sir Malcolm, Donald Campbell and his long-serving mechanic Leo Villa, a personal friend of Paul Foulkes-Halbard. There are sets of overalls, trophies, paintings and all manner of artefacts. Cars, too. A red 1935 Ford single-seater in the…

CORGI 1:36-SCALE ‘LITTLE NELLIE’ This is a faithful diecast model of James Bond’s most dangerous conveyance, complete with all the tacked-on weapons that made the real Little Nellie such a bugger to fly during the filming of You Only Live Twice. More properly called the Wallis WA-116 Agile, the diminutive aircraft was not fantastically stable to begin with, and the addition of Q-issued missiles, guns, mines and flamethrowers made it a worryingly wayward machine. Nellie’s Heath Robinson-ish nature was part of its appeal, though, and the wobbly autogyro remains one of 007’s great contraptions. £22.99. 007store.com OMP CARRERA RACING BOOTS To all those Historic racers who make the effort to dress in period-correct attire: chapeau. It isn’t easy to find wearable, vintage-style kit that will also prevent you from catching…

BROTHERS Nick and Giles English co-founded Bremont in 2002 to craft timepieces that are ‘Tested Beyond Endurance’. True to motto, the British luxury marque’s latest creation has earned its Shackleton-inspired name: the new limited-edition Bremont Endurance formed part of Ben Saunder’s kit when the explorer embarked on a 52-day Trans-Antartic Solo Expedition in November 2017, from Berkner Island in the West to the Eastern Ross Ice Shelf. Saunders first tested a Bremont watch – the Terra Nova – in 2014 on his 1800-mile polar journey; for his latest mission, the explorer also collaborated on the Endurance’s design, choosing lightweight titanium for the case and the now-thicker exhibition caseback, which displays the fine-tuned workings of the modified calibre 11¼in BE-93-2AE automatic chronometer. Saunders wore the Endurance on the outside of his…

FEBRUARY SAW DECLINES across the board of HAGI market measures, with month-on-month losses ranging from 2.77% to 5.13%. As a result of these February corrections, all HAGI indices, with one notable exception, are posting a year-on-year deficit for the first time since the market began to post positive annual returns in 2010. The HAGI Top overall market measure of investment-grade collectable cars declined 4.68% in February, which, for what it’s worth, was closely in line with global equities. Year on year the Top has lost 4.62%. Very simply, after a long period of strong and sustained annual growth (13% from 2012 to 2016) in excess of the sector’s historic long-term yearly average, the HAGI Top has left the growth trend for the time being. The same mean reversal applies to…

RONNIE PETERSON never won the Formula 1 Drivers’ Championship – the SuperSwede finished second twice, including in 1978, the year he died following a crash at Monza – but he is remembered as fondly as any champion. His furious style made him a favourite of racing fans across the world, but was also a major reason why he managed only ten victories from 123 Grand Prix starts, his overstressed cars often failing. He ‘honed’ that style in Formula 3, initially driving his homebuilt Svebe before signing with Tecno in 1968. In ’69 Peterson’s yellow Tecno was first across the line at 16 races, and after winning the F3 Championship Peterson was elevated to the top table of motor sport the following season. Tecno, founded by Italian brothers Luciano and Gianfranco…

AN ESTIMATED 235,000 UK historic cars – plus 200,000 historical vehicles of other types – will become MoT-exempt on 20 May and owners are being warned to be prepared because of a lack of Government clarification. For example, that number includes 106,000 cars registered between the newly exempt years of 1961 and 1978 that are currently on SORN, but there is no official line on whether these will need a safety test before being returned to the road. Neither has there been any response as to whether a car that fails the MoT shortly before the exemption starts technically becomes road-legal on 20 May. The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs advises owners to assume that there is a blanket transfer of responsibility to them to ensure their cars are…

SIMON SMITH’S ELAN is the first Lotus Twin Cam-powered car to win the Pomeroy Trophy – and he’d owned it for less than a year. Since its inception in 1952, this quirky event, devised to establish the best all-round touring car according to an arcane fomula devised by Laurence Pomeroy, has demanded a minimum capacity for post-war cars of 1950cc. But in the face of falling entries, two years ago the Vintage Sports-Car Club abolished the capacity limit, opening up the field to a new generation and allowing in a swathe of new iron, from Minis to Golf GTis. That included anything with Lotus Twin Cam power, meaning Smith was in with a crack even among a 143-car entry, up from fields of 90 cars under the old rules. The…

NIGEL MANSELL is set to have a very busy year, with appearances across the UK to mark the 25th anniversary of his World Championship win for Williams. The huge Sunday crowds that hung on his every word during the London Classic Car Show proved there is more than enough appetite to carry the celebrations through to December. While the F1 driver was just one of the big attractions during the fourth running of the event, his stints on stage with the late Henry Hope-Frost (see News) overshadowed everything else. And that with Mansell having already done pretty much the same routine at Autosport International in January. Of course, Mansell also took to the Grand Avenue, the event’s centrepiece quarter-mile runway on which cars can run at strictly limited speeds. Low…

IT MUST HAVE BEEN an interesting conversation when someone raised the idea of an Audi R8 without Quattro four-wheel drive. But with a 2016 company name-change for the division that builds the R8, from Quattro GmbH to Audi Sport GmbH, there came exactly that opportunity. And here it is, the R8 RWS – that’s Rear Wheel Series – a 999-strong, limited-run R8 that sends drive from its glorious naturally aspirated V10 to the back wheels only. Let’s start with that engine first. It’s magnificent, a 5.2-litre V10 relic in a world where forced induction, small capacity, cylinder-shorn engines form the zeitgeist. Audi hasn’t adopted it in its most potent, 601bhp form here, leaving the tantalising opportunity for a final hurrah in time. It’s got ‘just’ 532bhp. Enough for 62mph from…

A SUBJECT FOR an Octane First Drive doesn’t necessarily have to be fast, exotic or expensive: you should already know that we are more imaginative than that. So, if a manufacturer famous for doing things differently and renowned for comfort – that most unfashionable attribute for those who like to burn rubber – is once again staking its reputation on that, then we take notice. Comfort, says Citroën, is the new cool. It can be old cool, too; who doesn’t like the sensation of insulated, turbulence-free serenity in a Series I Jaguar XJ6, a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow or indeed a Citroën DS or CX? Feeling the way a car follows a road is good, of course, but feeling every hole, lump and wave in that road is not. Please meet…

Said James Bond, during 1974’s The Man with the Golden Gun: ‘Pistols at dawn – that’s a little old-fashioned, isn’t it?’ And Francisco Scaramanga answered: ‘That it is. But it remains the only true test for gentlemen.’ And sometimes the only thing to do is name a place and meet to settle the score. The reason for Lamborghini’s existence as a marque is steeped in rivalry with Ferrari, and that very relationship has become a cause célèbre among the faithful. In fact, some would argue that Lamborghini’s raison d’être was to outdo Ferrari in the roadgoing sports car game, and stories abound of early-morning impromptu duels between factory test drivers on the roads around Modena, inevitably with Dario Beluzzi driving the Ferrari and Valentino Balboni at the wheel of the…

PLENTY OF CARS – especially concepts and prototypes – go missing either for a short while or even permanently following a turbulent birth, but only a handful have gone so far off-grid that they are assumed to have been destroyed and expunged from history. Such was the case with AM123.002, a lost prototype Maserati Quattroporte II that was discovered in a Barcelona warehouse after decades of slumber. The story of the near-stillborn Quattroporte II as a whole is pretty ignominious. Whereas the 4.2- or 4.7-litre V8 Quattroporte I was relatively popular and shifted nearly 750 units from 1963 to 1969, its V6 successor was a commercial catastrophe, selling only a baker’s dozen in four years from 1974. Like all the collaborations between then-bedmates Citroën and Maserati, the project had looked…

PORSCHE IS EMBEDDED in the California landscape. Steve McQueen? Porsche man. James Dean? Say no more. And last summer, at the Pebble Beach Concours, the Petersen Automotive Museum’s chairman Peter Mullin announced an exhibition of 50 cars from the company’s history, marking its seven decades of engineering innovations. Now it’s open. ‘The Porsche Effect captures the spirit of Porsche, showcasing its contributions to automotive engineering and the motor sports world,’ Mullin tells Octane. ‘It was over a year in the making.’ As well as cars, you can see historical documents and artefacts, illustrating the evolution of the marque from its engineering-house beginnings via countless racing triumphs. Highlights on show include the 1938 Berlin-Rome Type 64 race car, a 906 racer, today’s 919 endurance racer, the Petersen Collection’s own 901 and…

 THERE’S A WONDERFUL Academy Award-winning documentary called 20 Feet From Stardom that focuses on those forever anonymous voices that form the backing to the spotlit stars soaking up the adulation at front of stage. ‘IT IS REPORTED THAT KOMENDA DIDN’T ALWAYS GIVE THE NAZI SALUTE WHEN IN THE PRESENCE OF THE REGIME’S PANJANDRUMS’ You could say that Erwin Komenda – the man who drew the shape of the most recognised car of all time and created the template for one of the finest sports cars of the 20th Century – is just such a voice, for his entire career was spent out of the limelight as backing singer to frontman Professor Ferdinand Porsche and, later, his son Ferry. Not only was he a background figure; for many years Komenda was…

1:18 scale 1966 Brabham BT19 By Spark Price £134.95 Material Resincast Affectionately referred to as the ‘Old Nail’, the one-and-only BT19 gave Jack Brabham his third F1 World Championship victory in 1966, and is famously the first car bearing its driver’s name to win a World Championship race. Spark’s replica is very fairly priced for its level of detail and it includes an acceptable model of the great man himself, only slightly let down by hands reminiscent of a 1970s Action Man figurine’s. But the Goodyear tyre logos are a nice touch, and the general finish is hard to fault at this price. 1:43 scale 1. 1971 Rolls-Royce Corniche By Oxford Price £24.95 Material Diecast Another Oxford stunner: super quality at a bargain price, and in metal, too. 2. 2016…

THERE’S NOT MUCH that can keep up with a well-driven Elan on a twisty B-road. Even today. Weighing in at just under a ton, this turbocharged 165bhp roadster was a rocketship, and its chassis was honed to near-perfection. Lotus hadn’t offered a small car since the original Elan went out of production in 1973, and by the early 1980s the boys at Hethel were cooking up ideas for a resurrection. Many options were explored but, with little funding for a new model, it wasn’t until the 1986 GM takeover that the new Elan – codenamed M100 – was given the go-ahead. With that came plenty of engine options, and Lotus settled on a 1.6-litre Isuzu engine – available turbocharged or naturally aspirated. Without having to worry about producing a suitable…

 CALIFORNIAN CLASSIC car enthusiast Peter Mullin, the world’s leading collector of Art Deco automotive masterpieces and chairman of The Petersen Automotive Museum in Los Angeles, is planning to open a new car museum in Britain. The £150-million, 160-acre project is projected to draw about 200,000 visitors a year and it could open as early as 2020. ‘ABOUT 30 CARS WILL BE FROM PETER MULLIN’S OWN COLLECTION, WITH THE REST LOANED BY OTHER COLLECTORS’ Provisionally titled The Mullin at Great Tew, the project is being developed on part of the former WW2 Enstone airfield and in conjunction with the Great Tew estate, a Cotswolds jewel located about 20 miles north of Oxford. Peter Mullin told Octane why he had chosen this particular site: ‘There are so many automotive businesses, including Formula…

SPEED IS THE THEME for the freshly renamed London Concours. The automotive garden party in the heart of the City of London takes place at the Honourable Artillery Company on 7-8 June and will showcase some 80 cars, ranging from the fastest on the road to some of the speediest racers ever created. Those signed-up already include the magnificent 28.5-litre Beast of Turin, Duncan Pittaway’s firebreathing Fiat S76 record car that could top the ton more than 100 years ago. It will be joined by the likes of Ferrari’s 1990s flagship F50 with its 203mph top speed and sub-4.0-second 0-60mph time. Quicker still will be the 230mph carbonfibre-bodied Pagani Huayra, but, even so, few of the modern hypercars can carry their speed with the panache of a Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing,…

THE 18TH CENTURY dictionary compiler Dr Johnson is, of course, best remembered today for his appearance in Blackadder the Third, but he is also famous for having said: ‘A woman’s preaching is like a dog’s walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all.’ Can you say the same about Land Rover’s decision to shoehorn a 400bhp petrol V8 into its venerable Defender? There were certainly a few raised eyebrows when, two years after Defender production ceased, Land Rover announced that it would be re-engineering a further 150 examples as top-spec V8s and flogging them for a reassuringly expensive £150,000 each. However, while the Works V8 is the fastest Defender that Land Rover has ever made, that apparently wasn’t…

No m at te r h o w powerful your car, or how great a chassis it has, you won’t get to enjoy it to the full unless it’s wearing the right tyres. Continental Tyres has been at the forefront of premium tyre technology for many decades, and its current range of tyres, for all types of vehicles, exemplifies its constant quest to push forward boundaries. For instance, its latest ultra-high performance tyre, the SportContact™ 6, uses a unique and highly advanced technical compound called Black Chili, a special blend of natural rubber and synthetic rubber that creates what’s known as a Micro Flexibility Compound: in simple terms this ensures the optimum interlocking of the tyre’s tread and the road surface. The benefits are manifold – better acceleration and shorter…

FOR MOST PEOPLE, Group B is synonymous with fire-spitting rally cars, but it wasn’t created exclusively for rallying. In fact, FISA had hoped that the new Group B category would also be used in circuit racing to replace the previous ‘silhouette’ racers. Group 5 was a prototype category based on road cars, though only the bonnet, doors and roof remained. In 1983, Group 5 was replaced by Group B, which brought the same wild liberties to rallying. However, unlike Group 5, the new homologation rules required 200 road cars to be produced in a 12-month period: cars that had to share most of their homologation features with the racing ‘evolution’ model. Such brutal machines would make little financial sense for manufacturers attempting to sell them as road cars. A few…

‘OUR EX-WORKS PAIRING QUICKLY DISPATCHES THE OCCASIONAL HATCHBACK IN A FLASH OF SPOTLIGHTS AND A SIX-CYLINDER BARK’ These are perfect roads for a Big Healey – quiet, fast and open, with excellent visibility through the sweeping corners. Our ex-works pairing quickly dispatches the occasional hatchback in a flash of spotlights and a six-cylinder bark. Up ahead, Paul Woolmer immediately pulls out a healthy gap despite being at the wheel of SMO 744 – the older and considerably more standard of these two rally icons. Gradually he lets me catch him aboard BMO 39B, a car that is five years younger and which carries within it the lessons learned in the intervening period of intense competition. After ten exhilarating miles, we switch cars and the differences are readily apparent. As we…

The stark Cumbrian landscape unspools in a blur, and conversation thus far has been conducted largely by means of hand gestures. But then it’s hard to be heard over the full-throated howl of a Jaguar twin-cam six as it reaches its sweet spot. The vast acreage of bonnet rises and falls like cleavage, the point of focus from the passenger seat being the onslaught of fresh air that bypasses the shallow wind-deflector and smacks you around the chops to the point that your face is frozen in a rictus grin. Meanwhile, the helmsman displays not a particle of doubt as speed rises and corners are dispatched with gusto. The horror-film fog of a few hours ago has made way for weak winter sun and he’s revelling in one more opportunity…

ONE OF THE uncredited stars of Stanley Kubrick’s 1971 movie A Clockwork Orange was the space-age turntable on which Malcolm McDowell plays his beloved Beethoven Ninth Symphony vinyl discs. Kubrick was fanatical about detail and spent as much time and effort selecting locations and props as he did his actors. As the movie was set in a dystopian near-future, clearly no ordinary record player would sit well in it. With Kubrick having already assembled a shocking collection of erotic art and artefacts for several of the movie’s sequences, the proto-punk anti-hero could not be seen playing his disc on a Dansette. As fate would have it, Kubrick had used a small engineering company, Michell Engineering, based in Borehamwood, Hertfordshire, to build models for his groundbreaking magnum opus 2001, A Space…

IN MORE RECENT YEARS the Amelia Island auctions have become a hotbed of significant Porsche sales, and 2018 certainly continued the trend. While the 1974 Porsche 911 RSR Turbo that headlined Gooding & Company’s auction failed to sell against a high bid of $5.4 million, other models – particularly those from the 1980s and 1990s – remained strong. With a number of other expected big-hitters failing to sell, Gooding & Company’s ‘barnfind’ 1966 Ferrari 275 GTB Long Nose Alloy became the most expensive car of the weekend when it sold for $2,530,000. The auction house actually recorded total sales of $35,937,250, the highest of all five 2018 Amelia auctions – and was up almost $5m from 2017. Important roadgoing Porsche sales were topped by a $1,760,000 1993 Porsche 964 Turbo…

WE HAVE A particular fondness for the work of Ghia and, had we been in the market for a Ferrari 195 Inter Coupé back in 1950, the Torinese coachbuilder – by that time run by Felice Mario Boano – would unquestionably have been given the job of dressing the chassis. Vignale, Touring and Motto were also engaged to craft bodywork for the Inter, of which 27 were built by Ferrari, but Ghia’s offering was the pick of the bunch, beautifully proportioned and more stately than sporty. It would not have occurred to us, it is safe to say, to have a bash at modifying a Ghiabodied Inter, but that is exactly what the first private owner of chassis 0113 S did. And against all odds, the result was not half…

IN HIS LATER LIFE, Powel Crosley Jr referred to himself as ‘the man with 50 jobs in 50 years’ – an exaggeration, but only a small one. Crosley was an entrepreneur seemingly impervious to disappointment, someone who regarded abject failure as a temporary inconvenience, and thanks to his bouncy-ball resilience he eventually enjoyed success in a bewildering variety of fields. Radios, radio stations, refrigerators, proximity fuses and a baseball team were all part of his empire at one time or another. Cars, though, were Crosley’s first love, and the cheerful machine pictured here was probably the greatest achievement of his fascinating, if spotty, career as motor manufacturer. The Hotshot Roadster was as pre-school in appearance as Crosley’s many other ‘subcompact’ (read: ‘tiny’) creations, but offered surprisingly grown-up performance. The 44ci…

‘I’M LIKE AN ADDICT, NOT SEARCHING FOR ANY BIKE IN PARTICULAR, JUST FOR THE NEXT GREAT ONE’ I USUALLY START work over breakfast; much of my business comes from the Far East and the US so a lot of enquiries land in my inbox overnight. Then it’s off to the shop, where I generally get an hour to myself to renovate bikes before the customers come in. That’s if I’m not driving round the country collecting new – well, old – stock, of course. The first bike I sold was a Bates, from brothers Horace and Eddie who set up in East London in the late 1920s. It was the Donington Historic Revival and it was my 50th birthday, so it seemed really symbolic. I’d been a teacher for 25…